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【键盘侠】三球凭啥这么抢手|蜀中无大将 廖化作先锋?

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On Lamelo Ball: Why are people so optimistic on a player who can't shoot, finish or defend ?

Lamelo has my non professional basketball evaluaiton alarm bells ringing. How exactly would he be worthy of a top 5 pick? Forget his father and off court behavior and solely evaluate his basketball ability.

关于拉梅洛-鲍尔:为啥大家都这么看好一个没有投射、终结和防守的球员?

以我的业余篮球评估能力而言,三球很是让人担心啊。他怎么就值得一个前五签了呢?且不说他爸和他的场外行为,咱们就单纯评估他的竞技能力。

Pros

Great height

Great passer with Good handles.

Cons

Bad defender

Bad athleticism

Horrible shooter

Bad finisher

Is no one else astonished people are considering him a potential top 1 pick?

优点:身材高大,传控俱佳

缺点:防守差、运动能力欠缺,投射和终结能力不行

居然还有人把他视作是状元秀热门,难道就没有人感到震惊吗?

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[–]ghgh2019 1859 指標 1 天前

Because 1. this year is a weak draft and 2. Playmaking at an Elite level is hard to come by and separates alot of the Good players from the Great players. As a team you hope his scoring can develop since he is young but you love the base that you have to start out with, 6'8 PG that is an Elite Playmaker.

原因在于:第一,这届新秀整体质量不高;第二,顶级的组织能力可遇不可求,这也是很多优秀球员和顶级球员的区别所在。站在球队的角度,你还能寄希望于培养他的得分能力,毕竟他还年轻,但是他的基本素质还是很讨喜的,2.03米高的控卫这就离顶级组织者不远了。

[–]Warriors xanroeld 85 指標 1 天前

Holy shit, when did Lamelo become 6’8”?! That dude shot up like a rocket.

勇士球迷:我勒个去,三球啥时候长这么高了?!这货个头蹿升得跟火箭一样啊。

[–]assbuttyouth 41 指標 1 天前

He grows fast. The Hornets scouting team speculated that he will continue to grow up to 7’ 6” or shrink to 5’5”. They are very confident that he will fall somewhere in that range

他长得蛮快的。黄蜂球探之前推测他要么继续涨到7尺6(2米28)要么就缩水到5尺5(1米65)。他们坚信三球的身高最终会在那个区间之内==

[–]SpursMeC0195 4 指標 1 天前

Whoa, that's so me! I'm also between 5'5 and 7'6. Maybe I should try becoming a basketball player!

马刺球迷:哇哦,说的不就是我嘛!我也在5尺5到7尺6之间呐。或许我也应该试试打职业!

[–][LAL] Lonzo Ball P00nz0r3d 180 指標 1 天前*

It’s the same thing with Lonzo

The intangibles are there and they are near elite

The things you can actually work on are terrible, and it’s far easier to fix athletic (EDIT: NOT physical, more in line of tendencies and habits) fundamentals and shooting habits than it is BBIQ and playmaking

湖人球迷:三球的情况和鲍尔一样。都有些接近顶级的隐性特质。倒是一些可以多加练习的能力蛮菜的,比起球商和组织意识,纠正他的基本功(编辑:不是身体,更多地指偏好和习性)和投射习惯要容易得多。

[–]Deadliftingfool 16 指標 1 天前*

Laker fans will never forget the excitement of Summer League Lonzo. They also wont forget regular season Lonzo.

湖蜜永远忘不了当初那个夏季联赛看到鲍尔打球的兴奋劲儿。他们同样忘不了常规赛的鲍尔。

[–][PHI] Joel Embiid sharke93 11 指標 1 天前

Lonzo and Melo really aren’t the same player. Lonzo isn’t really the half court playmaker Melo is but he’s definitely a more explosive athlete. I don’t think Melo has the same potential defensively as Lonzo but his handle sets him apart and he can make plays in the half court. If his scoring can come along he’ll be an offensive superstar, whereas Lonzo just shot 37% from 3 on high volume but still isn’t the kind to create for teammates like that.

76人球迷:大球和三球还真不是同一个类型的。鲍尔其实不算半场阵地组织者,而三球是,但他的爆发力绝对更强。拉梅洛的防守潜力不如他哥,但他的特色在于控球,而且他可以在阵地战里支配球。要是得分能力再开窍的话,那以后进攻端就是超巨水准了。而鲍尔尽管三分出手不少命中率也有37%,但他没法像他弟一样为队友创造机会。

[–]Raptors thedutchmerchant 381 指標 1 天前

If he were in last year's draft, where would he have gone?

猛龙球迷:要是把三球放到去年那届新秀里,你们觉得他能排第几?

[–]Minneapolis Lakers tattoo543216 805 指標 1 天前

5? Maybe the Cavs take Ball over Garland

湖人球迷:第五?或许骑士就拿下三球不要加兰德了。

[–]Hawks TraeYoungsBaldSpot 90 指標 1 天前

Ball definitely has a higher ceiling than Garland

老鹰球迷:鲍尔的上限绝对比加兰德高。

[–]Suns iamadragan 304 指標 1 天前

Probably 5-7.

The top 3 were way better than him and the Hawks were hell-bent on getting Hunter as a 3&D

太阳球迷:拉梅洛放去年大概能排个第五到第七吧。

前三比他强太多了,而且老鹰又是铁了心地要得到亨特打3D。

[–]Bucks NoTravel2 98 指標 1 天前*

Is RJ Barrett way better than him?

He also is a bad shooter, finisher, and defender. Might be a better finisher at the rim than Ball, but he was a bad finisher as a rookie and some of that is probably due to his lack of court vision on drives. Barrett doesn't have the ball handling or passing Ball does and Barrett doesn't have a floater game either.

Morant and Zion way better, but I'm not sure what Barrett has done to put himself as clearly above Ball.

Edit: Maybe I was mean about Barrett's finishing ability, he probably was fine for a young guard and may be a plus finisher in time. That said, by those standards you probably want to be a lot more generous about Ball's finishing.

雄鹿球迷:难道巴雷特也远强于三球吗?

何况巴雷特也是投篮、终结和防守都差。他的篮下终结能力或许比三球好些,但他菜鸟赛季的终结能力是真的菜,其中的部分原因或许在于他突破时缺乏场上视野。巴雷特并不具备三球那种传控能力,还不会抛投。三球的确是看不到莫兰特和锡安的尾灯,但你要说巴雷特明显强过三球,那我真不知道你的事实依据是啥。

[–]zScores77 指標 1 天前

Wow you are seriously underrating Barrett. He's gotta improve his right hand, but he's pretty solid with his left, is good at getting to the rim and got to the FT line a lot for a rookie. He's also pretty solid as a secondary ball handler and passer. And he's actually a good on ball defender at least, he definitely has the tools to be good.

And he did all of this on a really bad team with no shooting whatsoever, which makes life tough for a slasher like him.

LaMelo is a better playmaker than him, but if you dont think that RJ is way better as a finisher, shooter and defender than you must not have watched him at all last year.

那你还真是严重小看了巴雷特。他的右手持球能力确实有待提高,但他左手还是蛮稳的,既能冲击篮筐又能造罚球。而且他作为第二持球人和传球点时,打得相当稳健。至少从实际来看,他的有球防守很不错,绝对有资本成为一个出色的防守人。

况且他这种表现还是在尼克斯这种毫无投射能力的烂队做到的,这个环境本就不适合他这种内线攻击型的球员发挥。

三球的组织能力比他强,可是如果你不认为巴雷特的终结、投射和防守远强于三球的话,那你上赛季肯定压根没看过他打球。

[–]Knicks damn-mooses 30 指標 1 天前

rj is one of the best finishers among rookies, you’d know if you watched any knicks games last season

尼克斯球迷:要是上赛季看过尼克斯比赛就知道,在那届新秀里,巴雷特的终结能力处在最强的一批里。

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[–]Uwofpeace 310 指標 1 天前

bro three words BIG BALLER BRAND

老弟,原因就仨字:BBB。

[–]boomer browns 23 指標 1 天前

His last name. Younger fans love the ball brothers.

就是因为他的姓氏。年轻球迷喜欢球家三少。

[–]benson822175 231 指標 1 天前

This post makes him sound like Lonzo without the defense, which is terrible lol

Is that really the case?

看了这个帖子,我还以为三球就是没有防守的鲍尔,这不就是说他很菜嘛,哈哈哈

难道事实真的如此吗?

[–]Warriors spaldingmatters 15 指標 1 天前

He is a far better ball handler than Lonzo is, and projects as a better primary offensive initiator.

勇士球迷:他的控球比他哥强太多了,而且未来的定位是更强的进攻端主要发起人。

He has more of a talent for scoring than Lonzo does, better size, honestly his passing ability is more impressive to me.

Seems like a lower floor higher ceiling guy in comparison to lonzo.

他的得分天赋比鲍尔强,身材比鲍尔更高大,而且我觉得吧,他的传球能力也更让我惊喜。

比起鲍尔,貌似三球下限更低上限更高。

[–]Mavs Buck0Five 51 指標 1 天前

don't think he has better scoring, he just doesn't have the hitch in his shot that Lonzo had. Lonzo was actually a better offensive player in High School, but got exposed as he climbed up the ladder

独行侠球迷:我可不觉得他的得分能力更强,他哥只是在投射方面遇到了瓶颈而已。鲍尔在高中时期的进攻能力其实没这么不堪,但是随着舞台越来越大,他的缺点都被暴露了。

[–]Lakers 001justforfun 59 指標 1 天前

People thought Lonzo's defense was going to be horrible, but he turned out to be pretty good once he got to NBA.

湖人球迷:鲍尔进入NBA之前,大家还觉得他的防守会很菜呢,结果他到了NBA防守蛮好啊。

[–]Lakers cjsrhkcjs 35 指標 1 天前

I swear I saw this thread when Lonzo was drafted

湖人球迷:我发誓,当初鲍尔被我湖选中的时候,我也看过这个帖子……

[–]Clippers legendoftommorow 26 指標 1 天前

You know what I think Lamelo on the knicks would be fire. He’d sell jerseys, put on a show and I think he actually has the confidence to make them better in his first year

快船球迷:咋说呢,我觉得要是三球去尼克斯那就炸了,既能卖球衣又能赚吆喝,而且我认为他其实有信心在处子赛季就让尼克斯变得更强。

[–]Raptors MeekMill2Toronto2021 48 指標 1 天前

has the confidence to make them better in his first year

what are you even basing this off of lol

lonzo is a far superior leader than his brothers and even he did jack shit to “make others better in his first year”

猛龙球迷:“有信心在处子赛季就让尼克斯变得更强”

哈哈哈哈,你凭啥这么说啊

鲍尔的领袖力比他那俩兄弟强太多了,就连他也没法“在处子赛季让球队更强”啊。

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[–]Celticstwelvefourtysix 268 指標 1 天前

He’s Ben Simmons without the elite quality that keeps Simmons on the floor. Let’s be realistic: Simmons’ DPOY talent keeps him on the floor, not his offense.

凯尔特人球迷:拉梅洛就是打折版西蒙斯,他不具备西蒙斯那些顶级的看家本领。面对现实吧,西蒙斯吃饭的本事在于他那最强防守人级别的天赋,而不是他的进攻。

[–]Timberwolves cathorvaldson1 25 指標 1 天前

And Simmons was one of the most hyped prospects of the decade . We're talking about Ball who has/had considerably less hype as he isnt even a consensus number 1 pick in a weak draft

森林狼球迷:并且西蒙斯还是过往十年最受追捧的青年才俊之一。咱们这会儿聊到的三球不但关注度不如本西,甚至在一届整体质量偏低的选秀里都算不上公认的状元。

[–]Rockets polkcat 1202 指標 1 天前

Some of the most talked about picks of the last decade can barely play ball.

火箭球迷:过去十年里有些曾经最受追捧的那批新秀如今能打上球的都没几个。

[–][LAL] LeBron James SoundtrackToChaos 679 指標 1 天前

Jimmer Frederte

湖人球迷:弗雷戴特。

[–]Mavericks very_nice_how_much 509 指標 1 天前

Still hanging 30 a game in China.

独行侠球迷:依然能在中国场均30分。

[–]10lbs 542 指標 1 天前

Last summer at a club I met a really tall dude, and because I have no manners when drunk I asked him if he played ball, and sure enough he played in China.

Asked him if he played against Jimmer, told me Jimmer cooked him so bad the first time they played he considered changing professions.

去年夏天我在一家俱乐部碰到个大高个,我酒后失态直接问他是不是职业球员,结果他说在中国打球。

我又问他有没有和弗雷戴特交手过,他说自己被弗雷戴特疯狂输出到首次产生了想换个职业的念头。

[–]22Savage67128 指標 1 天前

I think the only no. 1 picks in the past 10 years who have done shit so far are Simmons, Kyrie, KAT, Wall, and AD.

我觉得过去十年来,能拿得出手的状元只有西蒙斯、欧文、唐斯、沃尔和戴维斯。

[–]Celtics Tpsteen 57 指標 1 天前

that's 5/8 so it isn't bad, because you're not counting on Ayton or Zion when it's way too early to tell

凯尔特人球迷:那也是八分之五的比例了啊,可以了,因为这还没算锡安呢,毕竟现在还为时尚早。

[–]Spurs MeC0195 11 指標 1 天前

I think Zion is absolutely good enough to be a big star. I also think he'll blow his knees in less than 5 years if he doesn't make some changes...

马刺球迷:我觉得锡安是肯定能成为重量级球星的。同样我也觉得,要是他不改变打法的话,不到五年就会膝盖报废……

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[–]Nets NicoolaJokic 81 指標 1 天前

Cause he's a 6'8" point guard with elite handles and vision lmao don't overthink it

篮网球迷:因为三球身高6尺8,控球和视野都是顶级啊,哈哈哈哈,你们也别想多了

[–]Knicks sexy-snickers 28 指標 1 天前

alright but he can’t shoot (25 3PT%), and his FG% was abysmal (37%)

his defence is poor as well

maybe you’re underthinking it

尼克斯球迷:行吧,可他没投篮(三分命中率25%),命中率烂透了(37%)。

防守也是个菜。

或许是你欠考虑了。

[–]76ers matthewdavis1432 10 指標 1 天前

There’s more to it than just percentages.

The biggest thing I’d point out is his shot selection. LaMelo looked like he was just playing pickup, so I’m sure his percentages would go up if he took smarter shots.

Second would be his free throw percentage. If I’m not mistaken, Melo shot over 80% from the line in Australia, which is a good indicator that he has touch and potential as a shooter.

If he’s willing to get coached on his form and stops taking 35 footers off the dribble, there’s no way he won’t be at least an average shooter.

76人球迷:你也不能只盯着命中率啊。

我觉得他最大的问题在于投篮选择。看三球比赛,感觉他就像是在打对抗练习,所以我相信要是他的投篮更聪明些的话,命中率肯定能上升。

第二点就是他的罚球命中率了,要是没记错的话,他在澳洲联赛的罚球命中率超过了80%,这就意味着他具备成为一名投手的手感和潜力。

如果他愿意接受指导纠正手型,别再痴迷于运球后35码开外出手,那他的投射至少能达到平均水准。

[–]Lakerscareslol 3 指標 1 天前

Let me ask you this, would Rondo be a top 5 pick in most drafts knowing what we know now? He has a bad defensive rating in the NBA, okay athleticism, below average shooter. But he has elite playmaking.

湖人球迷:我就问一句,开天眼而论,隆多在大多数选秀年份中能进前五吗?他的防守效率挺差的,运动能力还凑合,投射低于平均线。但他组织能力顶级啊。

[–]HueyFr 137 指標 1 天前

Well he’s not a bad finisher at all. And he has enough creativity at the rim to be confident.

He’s not a bad free throw shooter which gives optimism for his shot.

He’s 6’8, he could easily become a great defender. Lonzo was called a horrible defender before he got to the league as well.

He has good dribbling and and elite passing.

I’m not sure exactly why people are so surprised. It’s a weak draft, and he’s a solid player with a lot of upside. If he wasn’t a Ball, he wouldn’t be getting scrutinized like this.

这么说吧,三球的终结能力一点都不菜。他在篮下有足够的创造力来支撑他的信心。

他的罚篮并不差,这就让人对他的投射能力谨慎看好。

他身高6尺8,做一个优秀防守人简单得很。鲍尔进联盟之前也被说是防守万人捅呢。

他控球出手,传球顶级。

我是真不知道为啥大家这么看不起他。在这么一届质量偏低的选秀里,他是个具备很多优势的靠谱新秀。就因为他是球家的人,你们就对他吹毛求疵。

[–]Hornets ItsTheGucc 27 指標 1 天前

Absolutely tall as hell for a guard, and length means that ideally he can be coached into being a good defender, because he has the physical gifts for it. His steal numbers are good, but that is seemingly because he gambles a lot jumping passing lanes. At least that shows he has the vision to see where the ball is going next, though.

Something you’ve left off the list of pros that needs to be brought up is that he’s also an incredible rebounder at guard. His assist + rebound numbers in the NBL are totally nuts, and no NCAA player has had as many assists and rebounds in as few games played as him.

Being essentially the equivalent of a one and done also means he’s young enough to be molded and developed where he’s got weaknesses

黄蜂球迷:作为一名后卫,三球的身高绝对是可怕的,这就意味着在理想状态下,经过调教之后的他能够成长为一名优秀防守人,因为他具备这个身体天赋。他的抢断数据很不错,不过这貌似是源自他的赌博式跳起截球。至少这体现出了他预判球位的视野。

楼主所罗列的三球的有点还漏了一点:他同样是一名出色的篮板型后卫。他在NBL的助攻和篮板之和简直是变态,打了相同场次的NCAA球员都不如他。

[–]Saxtactical89 21 指標 1 天前

I did a piece on him yesterday and watched some tape on him and I kind of get it. His passing ability is NBA ready, he reads a defense well and he has enough wiggle to the bucket to put a little pressure on defenses, but just not consistently.

He has some ability, length and high level IQ, but he is very, very dependent on where he ends up. Minnesota will take him cuz the last name will sell tickets post-covid, but he would fit better in Golden State and I think will disappoint much more than Lonzo in other situations.

我昨天看了些三球的录像,有点能理解他的抢手了。他的传球能力已经是NBA水准了,阅读防守的能力也很强,而且几个晃动就能冲到篮下对防守人施压,不过并不稳定。

他的能力是有的,臂展长、球商高,但他的未来真的在很大程度上取决于他去哪里。明尼苏达会选他,因为他的姓氏可以在后新馆时代吸引票房,不过他应该更适合勇士,要是去其他队的话,那他会比鲍尔还要让人失望得多。

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来源:Reddit

编译:云长刮个痧

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